Zap rework/balancing

alrighty since many people complain about zap, this is my idea (read last paragraph for TLDR)

zap should have manual aim instead of auto aim, due to the fact that since zap is instant and auto aim being extremely accurate this gives you a 100% chance of hitting if within range.

for some reason, people think that removing the auto aim will somehow turn zap into trash, but this makes the mage class a little more skill based and not spam tp and zap for pvp

now, if zap was reworked to be only manual aimed, the hit box would have to be adjusted to allow some aoe to give zap a good manual aim. for example, a level 1 zap could have a radius of 1 stud, and every following level could increase the radius by 0.1, resulting in a 1.9 stud radius aoe, or 3.8 stud diameter (which is more than sufficient if you atleast have some aim).

basically, give zap manual aim like we’ve been asking, and give zap a small aoe at the point of impact (between 2 studs and 3.8 studs in diameter as a spherical aoe depending on zap level). this would help with balancing the 100% accuracy zap with the less unfortunate classes to give a fairer game

[ typed at 12 am on my phone B) ]

Sounds like a fairly decent idea

(And for some reason I can’t like the post… :thinking:)

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You forgot to mention Zap hits through terrain

Oh… I’m dumb

fixed it for you

Although I don’t manually aim every single attack I use. It really slows your DPS if you have to take the time to aim everything. Magic bomb for example, sometimes I just hit the macro to let it shoot off on its own. I only ever really aim when I’m about to initiate combat and I want an accurate and effective shot… Once combat is in it’s fair game.

So while zap having manual aim will most certainly lessen it’s OP capabilities, it should also still have the auto-aim (just nerfed so it can actually be dodged like that of other auto-aiming attacks)

Oh that’s smart. Using a macro to instantly autoaim it instead of actually pressing the hotkey, interesting.

see, in the game the auto aim predicts where the npc/player will go based on movement speed and the speed of the projectile, however zap is instant and will therefore always hit

if it had 100% manual aim, this means that even tapping the button would work and as long as your mouse was pointing at the mob it would hit

you could basically do what you do normally with zap as long as you bother to actually keep your mouse on the npc

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I can see the merit in there being close to no counterplay to an instant auto-targeted ability that does a decent amount of damage. I’m opposed to making abilities not work with autoaim because we want to support all platforms eventually (this includes mobile). I think a better solution is having Zap have a travel speed so that it behaves sort of like a projectile and can be dodged.

I’ll look into it.

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All right, people here are evidently, again, blaming the ability for being the problem, 100%. That, simply put, is not true whatsoever.

I’ll use Mage to make my point. Firstly, @ArcaneFxre, you’ve been talking about Zap mostly in a PVE context. When it came to PVP, you simply said “… this makes the mage class a little more skill based and not spam tp and zap for pvp” which indicates to me you completely skipped PVP and how it works currently, and why Zap would almost not work for PVP, same with the Hunter’s Knife Throw.

If you removed the auto-aim for Zap you definitely make PVP for Mage almost impossible, imagine having to fight a Warrior or Hunter who is jumping around and moving fast (using their DEX, agility) and you are wasting MP to try and hit them. It doesn’t work. On the physical damage side of Mages, don’t even try it, Warrior will destroy Mage in physical damage, always. Which makes perfect sense, and should be that way. So how is this fixed? Well, firstly, not blaming the ability itself!

Polymorphic talked about how they wished to support all platforms, and manual-aim on mobile is a horrible idea for PVP on mobile, it will make PVP impossible. I’ve stressed this before, I’ll stress it again, the bottom line is: No matter what you do, one class will always be unbalanced in PVP under the current combat system. When I say unbalanced, I do not mean just in damage, I mean in the flexibility of the class, I mean in the mobility, and so on. There’s plenty of elements that go into the whole of the idea of ‘balanced’.

Say for instance for a Hunter, a Hunter is not meant to face Warriors head-on and fight Warriors on their own ground, that is to say, on the ground of being a Warrior. They would fail because Warriors are meant to be the melee damage dealing ‘best’. So what then does the Hunter do? He tries and counters the Warriors’ abilities which in the current combat system he can only do with a Knife Throw, and while waiting for the Warrior to waste their abilities to try hit them, they can get in there and hit the Warrior once or twice head-on.

In this case, if a person maxed Knife Throw and the stats which improve the damage of it, they would destroy Warriors in PVP if they knew how to play their class right. That being said, Knife Throw is the Zap of Hunters. It also allows for counter against the Mage’s Zap.

Now, I understand some people may use the argument then of: “Well, if that’s the case, why not add a Warrior ability that does the same as Knife Throw and Zap? That’ll provide a counter to both, wouldn’t it? Hunters don’t have too much armor because that’s not the point of them, Mages barely have any armor, so it counters the Mage’s Zap that does magical damage and it counters the Hunter’s Knife Throw due to their lack of armor.”

The argument is a reasonable, well thought out argument but it doesn’t solve the fundamental issue. Firstly, Hunters would still be in a bit of a disadvantage because the armor of Warriors would hinder them greatly whereas the Warriors wouldn’t have such an issue with dealing with Hunters or Mages because of their lack of armor. So then what is the issue? No matter what you do, someone will be screwed over. My point exactly!

The issue is with the current combat system, to get to my point. The current combat system in PVE is broken because you do not need any dodge abilities because you can just circle a mob and avoid their attacks. If you don’t know about this, you clearly don’t know much about the mechanics of the game. I’m not sorry to say that.

In PVP, depending on the class and how they know their class, you are either screwed or you have a chance to fight them and defeat them. If it’s a Warrior and a Mage (currently) then the Mage will always win if they know their class and can sufficiently damage the Warrior (around the same level). You could argue, of course, that each class still has a chance, albeit a very low chance, but nonetheless a chance. In my opinion, worthless argument, don’t even bother. It dodges the issue at hand.

It’s not the abilities of the classes that are the problem, there are MMORPGs which click on a character and their spells auto-aim and hit the player so long as the caster is facing the player they want to PVP.

Again, you could change the abilities, but it will not fix the fundamental issue at hand and it will more than likely still leave a class in a disadvantage or completely screwed. Or, it would probably make life more unnecessarily difficult for players who are on Mobile, and so on. So again, it’s not the abilities that are the problem, stop saying that’s the problem.

BIG EDIT: I don’t own a Hunter, so if anything I wrote about Hunters isn’t true, that’ll be why. Feel free to correct me.

The issue to the problem is something no one else sees. The easiest fix for the system, and most plausible, is just to make all attacks target. MMORPGs all use some form of a guided combat system with a 100% chance of an attack making contact; whether that attack succeeds or not is another question. A guided combat system would eliminate hit box failures and would give each class equal combat attack success, meaning all that’s left to balance is damage and ability cool downs. Sure, anyone can argue that this would take away the fun of the game, but it doesn’t look like people are having much fun with the current system that as of right now and with your agreement, will always be unbalanced.

This is a little off-topic of the original discussion.

Actually, that’s exactly what I’ve been talking about. I haven’t talked about it in a way that mentioned it as much as I have mentioned the other things, but that’s what I meant by “just click on the character…”, if you read that part. Although to me that is all still part of the combat system.

My post is analyzing the flaws of the current one and why it won’t fix to nerf abilities or add new ones.

Yes, I’m sure a lot of us are silently thankful for pointing out the flaws, but if it’s not too much trouble, offer up a solution, or at least a better way to do things.

I have, actually. Maybe not terribly detailed, but I have before. Your post exactly proves my point as to why I don’t want posts moved to General-Discussion. It was in that post I did that.

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I have, though, been debating of making a singular post of that singular topic in Gameplay Improvements to amend that.

I’m not planning on making a formal statement on the matter, but I certainly encourage you to. A whole combat system rework would be tedious, but would put Vesteria above all over previous RPGs on Roblox.

I love working with complex systems, but sometimes I don’t feel like people give a damn about all that I post.

Like my story I posted, albeit not abiding the rules as well as off-topic in respects to just the bare-bones [QUEST CHAIN] part, but no one cared. Same with the developers, to be dead honest. So I’m not terribly encouraged about that.

I was writing a paper on nihilism and psychology for my high school, figuring out some fundamental ways of knowing which students are in danger or are already in a state of nihilism. They didn’t care, so I stopped working on it.

Edit: That was an example, by the way.

You can’t expect everyone to care about everything you do. You just do it in hopes that someone will care.

I don’t expect everyone to care. I expect people who claim to care about the game to care, including the people developing it.

So, I tried it out with Berezaa and we think we have something that’s more healthy. The PVE difference is negligible, but in PVP you now get clear opportunities to dodge the ability. Adding the projectile speed is a nerf, so we’re going to introduce a new mechanic to the ability to help put power into Zap in a healthy way. We definitely don’t want it to be useless in PVP but don’t want it to be oppressive like it is right now.

It’ll be out next update.

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