Why the Bounty Book is Worse Than the Monster Book

On October 28, 2019 at 1:54AM on the Vesteria Discord, berezaa posted the following in the “Upcoming Updates” channel:

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Later on, in the “Rant” channel, berezaa posted this:


It seems like a lot of people are in favour of this change, judging from the latter post’s reactions:
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These three posts will serve as the main point of discussion for this topic.


Let’s begin with why the Monster Book was such a good idea in the first place, one that even many people, such as myself, who were slightly concerned with the direction Vesteria was planning to take at the time were very excited about this change.

To give a recap, the Monster Book is a book which shows the name, image and health of every mob you earn an Idol from. Idols are simply rare drops (1% chance, approximately, with chance being increased for giant/boss mobs) which mobs can drop alongside their normal drops.

Furthermore, unlocking more drops allows you to gain both more EXP from the mob when the mob is killed as well as additional loot drops based on the amount of idols earned. These loot drops are typically also rare drops and therefore are not guaranteed even after getting the amount of idols required for them. These bonuses also saved across all save slots, thus allowing for faster progression on new slots provided you have earned a decent amount of idols on your main slot.

The whole purpose of the Monster Book was to give a larger incentive for players to learn about the mobs of Vesteria in-depth, and provide a solid goal for completionists in Vesteria. Overall, a change which received pretty much no criticism and seemed like a harmless addition at worst and a pretty large game-changer for completionists.

I mention completionists due to this chart, which berezaa used on stream when first describing his vision for Vesteria:
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In this chart, completionists would fall under the “Achievers” category, as well as a little bit under the “Explorers” category. This chart was used by berezaa to demonstrate how the goal for Vesteria was to please as many people as possible in these groups. Overall, Killers, Socializers and Explorers have had quite a lot of content to appease them, whereas Achievers pretty much got a set of lacklustre badges, two of which are currently impossible to get.

The Monster Book was truly a dream for Achievers, and even though some of the mobs weren’t even available at the time, being able to look at your Monster Book and see that bar completely filled on every possible mob was truly something special.


Now that we’ve covered the Monster Book and why it’s important to Vesteria, let’s go into depth on why the Bounty Book completely uproots this foundation and basically takes one step forward, ten steps back for Vesteria.

Let’s begin with tackling the first post made about the Bounty Book. I’ll be going through each point line by line, similar to how I do my replies.

  • Monster Book has been renamed to the Bounty Book

Nothing of note here, but I know if I don’t address it, someone would point it out. Moving on.

  • Unlock a monster’s Bounty Book entry when you kill them for the first time

This would be a decent change to the current Monster Book, and more “less luck-based” approaches to the Monster Book and Idols have been proposed in the past.

  • Earn extra cash by completing a series of increasingly large bounties

This sounds good for now, and as an addition to the current Monster Book when 100% EXP bonus is unlocked it would be actually a really neat addition to encourage players to continue grinding and learning about different mobs.

  • All monster drops unlocked by default

This is the first main problem with the Bounty Book. More monster drops should be unlocked through progression, that’s how most games work. It encourages players to spend more time in-game grinding mobs and it helps players learn how to defeat mobs in the most efficient way possible. Furthermore, it means that new players wont be completely overwhelmed and think that they should try to grind for the rarest drops since it would take more time for them to unlock every idol.

In general, this change hurts everyone except for high-level players, and even then they would already have the idols, so in reality this change just hurts everyone when combined with the final change (which we’ll get into in a bit).

  • Now shows all of a monsters drops (previously capped at first 8 drops)

Forgive me if I’m mistaken, but wasn’t this a bug? If you knew this was an issue, why not fix it beforehand? Seems like you’re trying to add more benefits to the list in order to make the Bounty Book seem more appealing.

  • Unlike idol progress, which was global, your bounties are unique for every data slot

Here we go. This is a real problem. This pretty much hurts everyone except for people who are both high level and don’t have a lot of money, which is only a small fraction of players owing to the fact that:

  1. Guardian Cores exist
  2. Golden Mushrooms exist

Both of these items are relatively easy to obtain in large quantities to a high level player, or even a mid-game players.

The reason that this hurts low level players on new slots is because they can no longer rely on previous Monster Book progress to level up easier, and new players will also have a harder time levelling up their second, third and fourth slots. Overall, it makes progression slower, and for people who only really play on one slot, it’s pretty much useless aside from getting rid of any progress anyone worked for from Idols.


Now that the first post has been thoroughly deconstructed, moving on to the “Rant” channel post. This one will be done more in sections than on a per line basis.

"There are multiple tiers of bounties for each mob and the amounts can get quite lucrative"

I don’t quite understand the progression system of the Bounty Book. Do the amount of mobs you need to kill stays the same and the reward goes up, or is it that the amount of mobs you need to kill goes up alongside of the reward?

If it’s the first, then yeah, this could certainly become a high-level money making strategy if you could eventually get into getting 1G from killing 100 Baby Shrooms or something along those lines (especially if it counts in Shroompocalypse as well), but then you also have to deal with economy inflation and it could cause the “second coming of the Terror of the Deep” if you will.

If it’s the latter, then this whole thing is pointless, since by the time you reach a decent amount of reward for your bounty (assuming that it doubles or so every time) then you’ll have to kill hundreds if not thousands of the same mob over and over again to score the same amount of money you could earn in a few rounds of Shroompocalypse or a few hours (give or take) of farming Guardians.

Furthermore, this just encourages autofarm exploiters to farm even more, and now that pretty much everyone knows the only way you’re going to get caught is if other people report you, it would be pretty easy for an exploiter to just continue to block people until they end up in a server alone, and then turn on their exploit.

"My hope is that fighting lower level mobs (still close to you though) with the bounty book will be a significantly better and easier source of money for players progressing through the game than trying to fight mobs at your level without the proper equipment. Players progressing through the mid-game are the primary target of this change."

First off, I found that when I played on a fresh slot in the Free Weekend build, I was spending more time farming levels than money for equipment. Money is never really an issue in Vesteria (except for having to spend it on a bunch of potions/trading for rare items) at any stage of the game.

That’s part of why this change is going to be so detrimental to new and mid-game players. No EXP bonus from mobs you have idols of/had idols of on a previous, higher level-save means that gaining EXP takes longer, meaning that by the time you farm enough mobs to get the next set of equipment you’ll have even more money than necessary to purchase it. This stacks multiple times until you reach the highest tier shop equipment and have way more money than required to purchase it.

Furthermore, again, quicker forms of money farming exist (Shroompocalypse, Guardians) even for mid-game players, so removing the EXP bonus at best changes nothing for mid-game players and at worst hits them even harder than with no change.

"I get that people will be upset because something that they earned (idols) are being taken away from them, but the fact is that for most players progressing through the game the first time, the idol system was confusing and not very fun"

I’ll admit, you make a fair point. The Monster Book system can be confusing for new players. Nevertheless, even without knowing what the Monster Book does, it still can work in the background to help new players with levelling up faster.

In terms of being more fun, this takes all the fun out of the anticipation of what drop will unlock next. It’s like peeking at a gift early. It takes all the fun and surprise away. Furthermore, grinding for idols is pretty much going to be the same as grinding for money with the new Bounty Book, just less luck-based (which people requested be done with the Monster Book anyways).

And finally, let’s address what I brought up a while back. Judging from what we currently know, there is no real way to 100% the new Bounty Book. That means no satisfaction of full completion. It is endless, and as I consider myself a completionist, that’s pretty infuriating. Especially when you’ve already grinding to 100% EXP bonus on most of the possible mobs so far.

"It’s far more rewarding to actually get rare drops than it is to be informed that you now have a tiny chance of getting a rare drop on a mob you dont [sic] really have a reason to care about anymore"

I don’t understand your logic. The whole reason people began to grind Baby Shrooms when the Monster Book first released was to get the Straw Hat. The whole reason people began to grind Rattys when the Ratty Vest was first released as a rare drop from idols was because they had a reason to care about Rattys again. This whole thing is backwards, and having the ability to get money from killing a certain amount of mobs isn’t going to make people care more about mobs that don’t have decent rare drops.


I guess I should rap this up considering how long it is. Overall, my general opinion is that the Bounty Book should just be an addition to the Monster Book for mobs which you already have all the idols for.

9 Likes

leveling is already scuffed with the xp bonus
getting to level 30 shouldn’t be this much of a task

Removing the XP bonus won’t help at all considering that we are gonna need 300k XP to go past 30 and the fact that we would have to kill nearly 900 Level 30 mobs to level up.

If the Bounty Book is a thing, XP requirements should be either toned down a lot, or mobs should give substantially more XP. And maybe the Bounty Book could give XP rewards, too.

2 Likes

I second meta on the point of XP changes - the curve is ridiculous, especially if bonuses are getting removed.

I don’t get why idols had to be replaced with bounties - why not have the bounty system In place and still have idols. That way you could have some variety in money grinding, get the bounty quest system in the game, and have idols to balance the XP curve.

Fully agree on progress no longer being global as a big downgrade. A lot of players would try the other classes for the novelty of it, and then abandon them. Then monster book became global, so that hard grind up maybe wasn’t so hard anymore. Now it’s a full other experience, which some players might enjoy, but for your average player, it’s just going to be more and more tedious.

Great post!

tfw berezaa makes your guide useless

I’m just mad about the exp bonus issue, Berezza stated that the reason it would be ok to make leveling so much harder when that update dropped was that monster book would make leveling for people with 2+ slots. If monster book disappears along with exp bonus, there is no longer a valid reason why the amount of exp required to level up was made so much higher. Basically if they are gonna add the bounty book, either lower the amount of exp required to level up or make bounty book have an exp bonus as well

@berezaa

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boi r u trying to write a fancy book report or something

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I didn’t even realize how much idols helped with leveling until a month after it came out. I had really no reason to complete back then and this just shows me I shouldn’t have tried to complete it cause of crap like this.

Really hoping that he reconsiders this idea. Good post :+1:

honestly im in favor of the bounty book rather than the monster book

Though it may help new players feel overwhelmed about trying to grind for the rarest drop, it creates a new problem of being overwhelmed trying to grind for all the idols. It may seem like a horrible thing for new players to try to grind for the rarest drops, but I don’t think so. For example, according to my bad memory which may of course be inaccurate, the baby shroom drops a straw hat, which is a rare drop indeed. If the straw hat chest didn’t exist (I honestly don’t like why there’s a secret straw hat chest), it would be reasonable to grind for the straw hat since it’s cool. It’s all about player decision, and grinding for something isn’t exactly a negative thing.

Grinding for idols isn’t a bad thing either, but I’m just sayin.

Wouldn’t the bounties being unique be useful? Money for all your slots

However, I pretty much agree that progress is going to be a lot slower, and in my opinion, is the only reason why I’d think that the monster book going away is going to be a bad thing

A solution would be to yknow, buff the exp gainage.

For some reason its hard for me to get into a shroompoc dungeon if im not level 30, so the bounty book is a pretty solid way (and also more clear) to earn money. Especially if you’re a new player that doesn’t quite know the money making miracles shroompocalypse creates.

The logic is this: Relevancy

This quote is actually one that’s a solid hit to the monster book. The problem is relevancy. When I kill baby mushrooms over and over (lets assume that straw hat chest doesnt exist), I end up getting enough EXP to not even care about the baby shroom. And it’s not fun to have your first slot be a frontline soldier that gets hit by uncomfort and uncomfort because by the time you have the final idol for the baby shroom, it’s already pretty useless and also pretty bad considering it gets very reptitive to kill things much lower than your level.

I think that the bounty book is better than the monster book. While I agree that exp progression will get yknow, slower, I disagree that idols will give a good experience, because honestly, it doesn’t really make me happy.

Idols do excite me when I get them, but oh man, when I decide that I want a rare drop and find out what mosnter drops it, it causes uncomfort when I have to go through all the idols to finally get it, which sucks especially if I’m a level 30 and I rather be fighting battys for their money rather than trying to get some kinda rare drop.

A solution that’d make the bounty book better fitted is to improve experience gain

I’m pretty surprised people aren’t disagreeing like I am, ether they havent read it yet, too lazy to read the entire thing, or simply afraid of being responded to and having to reply over and over and over trying to make a clear winner and loser.

As previously mentioned, Idols are rare drops. That means that unless a player knows that farming a mob over and over again will reward idols, there’s no point to doing that. On the other hand, when you instantly get a chance to get all drops which reveal themselves in the Bounty Book, it puts pressure on a new player to get the rarest drops.

The problem is that grinding for the Straw Hat leads to problems with boredom and may put off new players who think that the Straw Hat is cool, like you said. Remember when an extremely rare drop from Crabbys was the only way to get a Fishing Rod, and people would spend hours upon hours grinding for one? Seems like a lot of those players got bored pretty quickly, but new content kept them playing.

A new player has no incentive, no matter how much new content is added, to continue playing if the only thing they’ve experienced was grinding Baby Shrooms for multiple hours and then quitting.

The problem is that I have a feeling that bounties are going to be too long to be bothered with at a low level. Killing multiple enemies to gain money would be pointless at a lower level where you barely deal any damage, and once you get to the point where you can do it easily, you already have better money making options available.

Unless the bounties are like 10S for 10 kills on Baby Shrooms, it’s going to be pretty pointless.

That’s not the entire issue (although it is a major part of it). A global buff to 50% EXP would theoretically solve the EXP issue.

The problem comes with the vision for Vesteria. Either it’s not being followed very well, or they’ve completely changed it to be more focused on time spent in one session and analytics rather than having a fun time.

If so, then that’s a bit disappointing. I understand that maintaining good analytics looks good to investors and future developers who you might want to bring on board, but when you sacrifice your original vision to do that, it leaves a lot of the older playerbase in a bit of a sticky situation.

If you don’t understand what I’m talking about, re-read my original post.

When I was playing on a new slot I was able to get into multiple Shroompocalypse dungeons at levels 15-20. You wont typically end up with a team that knows what they’re doing or will win, of course, but you can still get a pretty decent amount of Golden Mushrooms just by sticking to a single lane and dealing with the enemies that come down.

Furthermore, you’ve neglected the Guardian Core situation, which is an even more clear, and arguably more ludicrous way to earn money. 1S per Guardian Core is a bit ridiculous I’ll admit, especially when factoring in the recent nerfs to Guardians.

That’s where the whole point of the Monster Book being global comes in. Sure, maybe your main slot which is a level 30 Shroom killing machine can’t use the bonus EXP bonus from Baby Shrooms, but a new slot just starting out certainly could.

That just means you’re not in the “Achievers” category of gamers. That’s perfectly fine. But you need to understand that there’s quite a few people out there who do actually get satisfaction from finally hitting 100% bonus on mobs. I was pretty ecstatic when I finally finished off the Guardian EXP bonus, because I had worked for quite a while on it and it felt like a pretty good accomplishment.

Now, that feeling will never be possible again for new players since the Bounty Book is never-ending (as far as we know). Even adding an ending to the Bounty Book would work wonders for this.

I hate to nitpick, and I should have done it earlier, but I think the word you’re looking for is “discomfort” not “uncomfort”. Uncomfort is not a word. Uncomfortable is an adjective, discomfort is the noun.

Anyways, here’s the thing. With the current Monster Book, while fighting Battys for idols/rare drops you can also farm them for money at the normal rate, as well as EXP at a boosted rate (depending on how many idols you have). They’re not exclusive to each other.

With the proposed Bounty Book, it would be swapped. You’d be farming for money at a boosted rate and EXP at the normal rate. This is a problem, since gaining levels is far more difficult than making money, as I explained in my original post.

I propose two alternative solutions that I think would make everyone at least a little bit more happy.

  1. Keep the Monster Book, unlock the first idol on the first kill of the enemy, then have a bounty for idols rather than money. Idols still work the same way and still maintain the bonus EXP. Once all idols are unlocked, the Bounty system for that enemy is unlocked, and you gain money instead of idols using the proposed Bounty System.
    Essentially, merging the Monster Book and Bounty Book.

  2. The simpler solution would be to simply put a cap on the Bounty Book. You progressively gain EXP boost every bounty you complete, and once you reach the cap, you gain the maximum 50% EXP boost.

The first solution would probably please everyone, but would take far more work.
The second solution would probably be quicker and would please quite a few people, but would still upset those who want an unending source of money and money only.

Or, alternatively, people have a different opinion than you. Crazy, right? Could be possible though.

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But when you don’t have all the idols and a older player wants a rare drop from a specific creature, it puts pressure on a older player to get the idols

Along with that, if someone told the new player that they can get a straw hat from a baby mushroom, they’d have pressure to not just get the idols but to also get the straw hat. The idols is hard work, 1% chance for one of them, which doesn’t unlock everything.

This pressure between both the new players and the old players as I have listed doesn’t matter much, as new players are already expecting to be able to get rare drops as it’s regularly made in games like Vesteria.

Grinding for idols also leads to problems w/ boredom. The percentage to getting the drops is the same as if you unlocked all the idols with the Bounty book.

The intended purpose of the bounty book is for players to kill the monsters they’ve out-leveled in order to collect their bounty so they can buy equipment they need to fight stronger monsters.

The balance in mind, however, is out of the control of both of us and relies on the developers.

Vesteria can appeal to Achievers, but this idol system is an obstacle for me, I don’t like grinding forever for a idol and then getting a chance to get a rare item.

There should be a different approach to appealing to the Achiever audience, but this idol system is an obstacle for those who aren’t.

However, it is not as clear & stable as the Bounty Book system, which allows new and unknowing players to earn cash for their equipment. Those 2 options are too difficult for new players, and new players is the Vesterian focus.

  1. Shroompocalypse is hard to come across, a reason being that it’s in the side of Mushroom forest, while new players might just want to get right into the point and follow the road to the Great Crossroads. Along with that, this is a level-10+ dungeon, meaning that people w/ no knowledge won’t re-enter the Mushroom forest to find the Shroompocalypse. It’s also harder than you think to find a party, but it isn’t impossible.

  2. Guardians is really ew, ngl. I think battys are a better way and shroompoc is a better way as well.

Yes, indeed, I’m probably not a “Achiever” category of gamers but I believe that it isn’t exactly perfectly fine. The problem with this Monster book is that yes, while it does indeed appeal to the “Achiever” category, it doesn’t appeal to the non-Achievers. This is a unstoppable obstacle for those who aren’t Achievers. The idols are required for the rare drops, and while you say that I’m not in that category, I still want rare drops (but idols ew).

A solution would be to make another appeal for achievers that doesn’t interfere with the interests of those uninterested. It would be beneficial to both categories and will solve the problem as a whole.

indeed im bad at english, but I like to describe myself as a man that has good logical thinking skills that can’t write them down propertly (To give you an idea, I use bad and good in everything, my vocabulary is 0)

I think we can deal with this problem by the increase of exp bonus, so a good compromise would be what I’ve said earlier w/ this exp bonus kept

Your first solution has a flaw however, it wouldn’t be able to provide new players the money for the equipment they need. You’re saying that you need to unlock all idols before the bounty system is unlocked, which is quite annoying.

So instead, perhaps make the idols be given along with a bounty reward?

However, even with that being done, rare drops are still going to have a barrier; no one wants to farm idols for a sickle if they’re a hunter, because honestly it took me forever to get enough idols needed to get a sickle from the Scarecrow.

The flaw is that it’s still a barrier to non-Achievers in that sense

Your second solution is okay

because i feel like your name gives off a sense of

“He knows what he’s talking about, lets agree”

its just something to knock people off the bandwagon and learn to think, realize the pros and cons instead of reading just one point of view and not thinking of another

I probably wouldnt even care if monster book or idol system is implemented, but I always disagree because there’s always a second side to the coin

I need to many tldrs rn

damn u guys write essays in your posts… Mind helping me with my english essay?

Like I said, it’s far easier for older/higher level players to get idols thanks to the massive amount of damage they can do compared to new players.

If someone told me when I was a new player “Hey, you can get a Straw Hat from a Baby Mushroom”, first I’d be skeptical since anyone could say that any enemy drops anything. But, if I did research and found out it was true, I still wouldn’t bother with it because of how rare it is, at least until I levelled up a bit. It’s why you didn’t see players in the Free Weekend farming for Idols/Straw Hats (that and because of the Straw Hat Chest). It’s easier to get them once you’ve levelled up.

My first thought when I play an RPG is not “Oh, time to farm the beginner mob for six hours to see if it drops anything rare”, my first though is “I’ll explore the map, level up a bit, see how far I can get, and then go farm for rare drops”.

If a new player wants to farm for rare drops more than they want to experience the rest of the game, that’s fine. At least they have something (slightly) unique to show for it. Here, you just end up with money, the most easily obtainable resource in Vesteria.

Yes, but the idea is that it’s rewarding when you finally do unlock the drop you were waiting for, and get the EXP bonus. For the Bounty Book, you don’t get that feeling of satisfaction since you get everything instantly, and no EXP bonus.

This statement is factually incorrect, as evidenced by the statement on berezaa’s “Rant” channel statement:

“My hope is that fighting lower level mobs (still close to you though)…”

Please explain how Vesteria can appeal to Achievers without the Monster Book system. Before you begin:

  1. Level cap will be raised continuously, and so there will most likely never be a permanent “final level”.
  2. 2 of the badges currently available now are unobtainable, so 100% badges are out for a large group of players.
  3. Bounty Book is (as far as we know) endless.

This is a fair point. I do think that if this change was made though, there needs to either be:

  1. More badges that are harder to earn (things like unlock all chests at least once, earn a 5-star gold weapon, kill a ridiculously high amount of a single mob [such as 10,000 Baby Shrooms or something along those lines). Badges should also give small EXP boosts for those who own them (except for badges like beta, alpha, referal, etc. badges). Furthermore, the exclusive badges that require buying the game at a certain time should be removed off the badges page (there’s a way to do it where users who already own the badge will still keep it but it will be removed off of the game’s badge page).

  2. Something in-game that players can constantly grind towards in order to get a small bonus.

One (or both) of these systems would be required to be in place when the update hits. Unfortunately, this would delay the upcoming update for a few more weeks to a month most likely, but I think it’s a fair trade off.

As I’ve stated numerous times at this point, by the time the Bounty Book system could be done reliably and quickly to not be completely ridiculous, you’d already be in the mid-game with decent equipment already, and be able to do Shroompoc/Guardians.

Except for the fact that people are constantly asking to party for Shroompoc in the chat, and a new player could simply ask where it is and be directed straight to it.

Surprisingly enough, people actually re-enter Mushroom Forest to do Shroompocalypse. It’s not just like 10 people who know that Shroompocalypse exists. It’s pretty common knowledge at this point, even for newer/mid-game players.

I can kill a Guardian in approximately 20 seconds, give or take. We’ll call it 20 seconds though. Travel time to get to a new Guardian is approximately 10 seconds at most, so 30 seconds per Guardian, meaning 1S per 30 seconds. That’s 2S per minute, 120S per hour. Not as ludicrous as you can get in Shroompoc, but still really good, especially if you don’t know about Shroompoc.

That’s why proposals have been made (and lambasted by the majority of the community) to make Idols either more skill based (increasing drop rate per mob kill with a 100% drop rate at 100 of the mob killed or something like that).

I even suggested buying idols from a vendor. Let’s see how that went:


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Oh hey, everyone has come to the consensus that grinding is both good for the game and that having a system which makes it easier to get idols based on a solid property rather than randomly is not seen as being a good idea since idols are easy to get.

100% on board with this. If only this actually happened now.

That’s fair. At least now you’ve learned something and hopefully can apply it in the future.

In my original post, I talked about how money tends to be a non-issue even when starting from scratch, since by the time you are levelled up enough to purchase the equipment, you’ll already have more than enough money to purchase the entire set.

Entirely fair, and a good point.

Again, that’s fair, although most people would disagree.

I agree with your final line. Critical literacy and critical thinking is important, and I certainly frame my posts in a certain way to get the reader to think from my perspective. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t. My goal isn’t to stifle good conversation and critical thinking, in fact it’s the opposite, encourage good conversation and debate until we reach a solution/compromise on all issues.

In terms of my name being a “persuasion tool” in and of itself, I disagree. I lost regular status just recently since I no longer have the required # of likes/100 days (this is not necessarily a bad thing, I haven’t been too active recently so it’s not that big a shock to me). I would understand if you used this argument against someone like Meta, since he’s actually in a position of power and is regularly posting, but in terms of myself, I’m just a normal forum user.

I’d be willing to go with a compromise that helps everyone, but with the proposed Bounty Book that isn’t really happening.

its easier but 1% is 1%

the problem is that leveling up makes the straw hat useless

a more realistic example would be that hunters (this category included me, hunter was actually my 2nd slot) would want sickles because of that crazy +10 dex

the problem is that yknow, this requires hella lotta idols, and once you get the sickle, you’re probably going to want and also probably can afford a better weapon than the sickle

My first thought of wanting to just level up and explore is similar, and this thought of wanting to explore and level up further gives purpose to the bounty book.

Here’s a story of when I was a loser level 10 hunter that looked at the Vesteria wiki constantly. I figured out that hunters can carry a bow or a dagger, and I was more of a bow person.

Back at that time, bows were 50 silver w/ a level 15 requirement. I was thinking that I’d be able to get that much cash by the time I was level 15 but that was wrong. At a later level at like idk 19, I was finally able to get enough cash to buy a bow and use. Then I realized that arrows existed and totally gave up on it.

This bounty book thing can fix this mess, but obviously not directly this one because I believe that the price of bow has decreased.

I do agree that it is satisfying to unlock a drop, but there’s that satisfaction in just getting a rare drop (So players like me can also enjoy that satisfaction w/out having to grind and grind for idols)

The Bounty Book is like finishing a quest, with money as a reward. There’s satisfaction in that.

Remember that I am not telling you that I disagree that it gives satisfaction, but obviously this satisfaction does not go for all categories, but also serves as an obstacle instead if we think about how people that don’t like grinding for idols for a simple sickle would feel. There needs to be different ways to appeal to people who like these things that don’t serve as an obstacle.

its not incorrect, killing monsters you’ve out-leveled can mean the same as fighting lower level mobs, its just how you perceive the langauge

for example, if i said something like “This game is decent”, people may perceive it in many ways that’ll probably range from neutral feelings about the game and good feelings.

i havent thought of one yet, but you can’t tell me that the monster book is the only way to appeal to Achievers

im pretty sure neither of us can argue this because we don’t have enough real experience with the bounty book, so let us agree to put this as a draw

I don’t stay in mushroom forest long enough I guess to be asked I guess :clown_face: (Remember that this is a level-10+ dungeon, and level 7 hogs are in the Great Crossroads)

idk man i had to actually try to get someone to tell me what the shroompoc is, most players dont even know it exists

the bounty book is more reliable, a bandage like “Oh, they’ll just find the shroompoc to get money” might not cut it entirely

(emphasize “isn’t impossible”) (oops that quote above is from me, but i took it from your post so it shows it as you making that post)

i get bored after 10 guardians so i just find this way of getting money bad

so lets yeet monster book then :clown_face:

it is a problem, i see half armored mages and warriors all the time

some of them just keep the bronze sword until they get like the iron one

ngl you’re pretty known for word walls, your credibility is a good thing don’t take that as a bad

OP: 1,883 words 10,519 characters

Just this single god damn reply: 1,071 words 5,899 characters

My point was that you can deal more damage and kill more mobs in a shorter period of time, thus reducing the amount of time required to get all the idols.

Essentially, if I’m understanding correctly the complaint is that by the time you get the Sickle, it’ll already be too late. So here’s my counter-proposal to you: Proper class routing.

Sure, maybe if you start with hunter it will be too late to get the Sickle. But say you start with Mage, and farm Idols using a high-level Mage. The Sickle unlock will be useless to you as a Mage, but when you start your Hunter slot, you’ll already have the idols unlocked plus a 50% EXP bonus per kill. As far as I know, the rare drop percent itself hasn’t changed, so with or without the Monster Book it would still be the same, and yet no one complained before that the Sickle was too rare.

First off, let’s get the time period straight. When did you go for the bow? Was it before or after Guardians and other efficient money making strategies were added? Was it before or after the rise of trading in the Vesteria community? Was it before or after new quests were added which make money easier to get through normal gameplay?

Essentially what I’m saying is that you can’t compare a past experience with today’s game unless the past experience is based on the current strategies available today. Go into the Free Weekend test area (it should be opened on Saturday), begin a Hunter slot, and play normally. Do the quests available to you and kill the mobs that you can until you reach level 15. Let me know if you have enough money to buy it nowadays (or even if you have 50 silver by that time). If you don’t, let me know how long until you can afford the bow through normal gameplay.

The grind helps set you up for the satisfaction. I understand where you’re coming from though, and as I said numerous times at this point, alternative ways to get idols have been proposed and completely either bashed or ignored by the community.

The Monster Book is like finishing a quest, with the ability to unlock new drops and a permanent EXP buff as a reward. There’s satisfaction in that as well. There’s satisfaction in seeing full bars on your Monster Book. A lot of things can lead to satisfaction, but some things lead to longer term benefits than others.

I addressed this just previously in my post.

I suppose it is up for interpretation. I gathered that your definition of out-levelled meant out-levelled by a large amount of levels, but I suppose that even being a level higher would technically be considered as “out-levelled”.

Sure. You could remove the unobtainable badges from the badge page without removing them from inventory (which apparently you can actually do somehow) and create new badges that are hard to earn, and then add a badge counter button or something. Maybe even the ability to display certain badges in the future.

The question is, will the Vesteria Team do this? And the answer is most likely a resounding no, because it would be considered a luxury and non-essential, even after the Monster Book was removed. So we’re back at square one.

You don’t need to be asked directly, if a new player sees “Looking for a party for Shroompoc” (a common phrase nowadays) in the chat in Mushroom Forest, a curious player will ask what it is, and hopefully it would be explained to them.

I went to Mushroom Forest and ran a quick test to see if people knew what Shroompocalypse was.

In a server of 19 people (not including myself), 5 people were talking in chat. 4/5 knew what it was, and the last guy was busy spamming “Buying Stick” in chat. If I could find I server with more people talking it might lead to some more solid results, but nevertheless it’s still pretty good. Extrapolating the results means that in an average server, 80% of people will know what Shroompocalypse is.

Even if they don’t find Shroompocalypse, chances are they’ll go to Redwood, kill a Guardian, sell the core and release “oh, this is a great money farming opportunity”.

Oh, if you want to know how to switch a quote to show the right person, replace the quote text above with the name of the person and the post the original is taken from.

Anyways, rather than say “isn’t impossible” I’d probably say “is quite likely provided you actually ask”.

I’d recommend multi-tasking while farming Guardians because it can get boring. Watch a video or listen to some music or something while farming Guardians. Once you get the attack pattern down you don’t even need to see the screen or listen to the sound effects to know when to dodge.

I don’t understand how you came to this conclusion:
“Monster Book idols are hard to earn so let’s make Monster Book but the reward instead of an EXP bonus and new loot drop chances is that you can get money. You know, the one resource every mob in the game drops (except Spiderlings)”.

If you know how to get money, (Shroompocalypse, Guardians, etc.) or even do all of the quests available to you and open a few chests, you will have enough money by the time you reach the next level of gear.

I don’t write word walls. I use pictures, line breaks and reply boxes (when replying to a reply) as crutches to make my post seem longer. If you were to remove all of those things from my posts, they’d actually be quite short, maybe a quarter to a half a page in Microsoft Word or a similar word processor.

I just ran a check removing all quotes, all line breaks and all image text in order to get a more accurate reading.

OP is actually only 1659 words, 9267 characters.

Using 8 point font (a tiny bit below standard) in Microsoft Word reveals that the actual text is just under a page. Longer, but actually not that long at all.

Here’s an example of a Level 2 Bounty for Moglos (level 25) for reference, for you guys to use as evidence.
image

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