My take on why subclasses cant be specialized

I know we are all hoping subclasses each provide a different aspect and cater to a certain style player, but Ive been trying to think about how this could be possible to make each subclass unique in an rpg game like vesteria. I believe the main problem to making subclasses is that each player needs to be able to farm pve effectively to get a high level. If a dps warrior can farm pve easy to high level, why waste time making a healer when you still need to grind somehow for exp? Games like overwatch are able to skip this process as it is strictly pvp, but in order for a subclasse to be viable it cant be terrible at damage output but good at something else, or specialize in any one aspect, without it either becoming OP and easy to farm, making one class have predominantly more high level players coughwarriorcough. My question to you all is how do you think it could be possible to make support classes or make movement classes without then being impossible to get to a high level and having them totally rely on other class charachters?

My first idea would be to make each class rely on another, ehich relies on another, which kind of makes a circle eventually (think rock paper scissors) but this brings the flaw of forcing diversity and making playing a class with a low amount of players high demand with low supply just to fill a party.

There is no planned healer subclass. There will be a subclass called Cleric which specializes in holy magic, which would include healing. Apart from that, you also have your original class book.

You forgot about Paladin.

This is more why i believe its impossible to create a sublass thats a great healer but not good dmg output, or really any class that would output little dmg in exchange for something else. Then you have the issue where is every class can output dmg at similar speeds (because if they cant they will be ignored as you cant pve with it) then theres no real specialization.

one reason i believe mages are struggling is because its such a niche class, only good for ranged attacks, but everyone has good ranged attacks so why sacrifice up close dmg and defense for a slightly better range

While I definitely see your point, they COULD just make it REALLY good, in exchange for making the thing you’re exchanging it for almost unchanged.

Example: Hunter goes to Ranger.

The Ranger gets good range, with it being their primary attack.

Trade-off: Lack of damage in terms of skills when it comes to being overwhelming. Still helps, but not as much as if you didn’t take the tradeoff.

Or another example. Don’t decrase somethign at all, just have it SOLELY specialized.

Again, Hunter and Ranger.

They use a bow, and skills are somewhat the same. What I mean is say, replace Dagger Throwing with a powerful shot, to differentiate it from basic shooting, and the Heavy Stab being… I dunno, a leap torwards the enemy to footstool off of them and rain a few arrows on them? I have no idea.

My point is: Maybe make the sub-classes make the traded-off item somewhat worse, or not change it at all.

It’s simple, you use two systems for PVP and PVE, in PVP, supports would be more geared to support, but equal in PVE.

Agreed. XD

More than dmg subclasses im more talking about subclasses that wouldnt be geared towards dealing dmg. For example the cleric subclass for wizard will be healing, but while other games are able to have charachters that the only focus are healing, or only purpose is buffing others, the cleric subclass will still have to output enough dmg to actually pve or pvp or it will be relatively useless (only good for raids).

I mean… Yeah, I get your point, but maybe the Cleric could, I dunno, have HP Drain? Who knows.

Balancing is an issue, I can see where you’re getting at. But that doesn’t mean we can’t fix it right? Just come up with stuff, mix it if it goes well together, and see if it works, right?

How do Healers on other RPGs like World of Warcraft level up then?

It’s possible and it’s been done many times, and more often than not when there’s not a healer the whole group gets destroyed pretty fast… this is why the healer is needed, and also how the healer levels up

But keep in mind, subclasses will have their strengths in PvE with their faction skills, so they won’t be weak since they will still be able to use the skills they had before choosing a subclass.

Clerics and Paladins may deal a lil less damage with less damaging skills compared to Beserkers and Sorcerers, but they can still be effective with healing and damage with old and new skills alike.

That being said, it would be balanced in PvE and PvP since they will be able to deal decent damage while kiting and being able to heal at the same time.

Since pve isnt really a group activity, healing abilities are kinda wasted. Also making healing abilities do dmg to mobs would just make healers overpowered as they can both heal and dmg so balance in both raids and normal pve and pvp is a hard combo

Huh, I didn’t mean that.

Im saying that wiuld be the easiest fix for the problem, but even that has issues

World of Warcraft normally played in a group if you are leveling as a support since it is so much faster when paired with say a Demon Hunter which can deal large amounts of damage and has a large amount of mobility. Though what most Healer mains do is switch from a their healer spec to a DPS one when solo leveling to just be quicker and then switching back at maximum level since the content at that point is all group based.

If Vesteria doesn’t have the option to switch between sub-classes like WoW does then they will be slower. Though the whole point of a healer in a game is to be a support anyway and only people that are part of a guild would probably pick it since it’s the only time it is viable, therefore they would have help in leveling from their guild mates.

Im hoping sunclasses wont be locked to only work in groups. I mean maybe something can be added where when you buff people you get like an exp share effect, or just the more dmg you do the less exp you get from enemies and bice versa, but something has to be added to make supports actually viable. Hope it doesnt become “oh my guild needs a healer, well i guess ill make a second slot for it”

That tends to be how MMORPGs work. A Healer wouldn’t have a point existing apart from being a support to team mates in groups. Why would anyone pick it otherwise? One of the incentives within MMORPG games do come from the distinct lack of people willing to play these supports and therefore they are high in demand and find it easier to get into groups. Healers will definitely be needed in the future, especially with big potions becoming more scarce and the healing spell being quite slow.

I know thats how they usually work, just see some classes being more/less useful than others as a bad mechanic.