Death and taxes

Edit: thanks everyone who voiced your opinion respectfully on this discussion. After a lot of thought, we’ve decided that we will not continue to pursue the perma death idea.

We’re looking at ways to improve the Vesteria experience so that we can introduce high-stakes situations, including returning you to your home city with docked XP after dying. Please continue to share your thoughts on the forums.

Benjamin Franklin once said that in this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death and taxes. While the Vesteria team does pays taxes, a review of our game led us to believe that inconsequential death was a major hurdle to having any kind of depth or significance to a lot of our gameplay.

Pictured: Benjamin Franklin after dying to Rubees in Scallop Shores for the fifth time in a row.

We’re making this post because we’re unhappy with the current progression and gameplay loops in Vesteria and want to make drastic changes. This post is dedicated to breaking down what we are thinking of changing about death, and why are are considering these changes. A lot of misinformation is going around so we want this post to be the definitive source of all information in this matter.

Let’s jump right into it: the discussion is about whether or not to implement a permanent death mechanic in Vesteria. Take a deep breath and let’s dive into what this means.

Before we talk about anything else, I want to make it incredibly clear that this is a creative decision and not a business decision. We totally understand that we might be shooting ourselves in the feet here and alienating a lot of existing players, but we’re really unhappy with the state of the game and that has serious effects on how we work. It’s really hard to develop for a game that you don’t enjoy playing yourself, but that’s the state we’ve been in since we launched the Beta.

A permadeath mechanic will allow us to create moments of genuine emotion and player reactions that we just can’t get elsewhere. It would also encourage a new layer of player-to-player interactions that just cannot exist in the current game.

Here are some compiled explanations of what this update would entail:

We would also consider giving all players who put enough time into the game and reached a certain point before this update a free one-time soulbound extra life equipment item, similar to the Amulet of Resurrection from Realm of the Mad God. We will never sell this item for Ethyr, and a tradeable version will likely be obtainable as a super rare drop from bosses.

Here’s an example of what a hypothetical changelog for this update might look like:

Changes to Death & Core Gameplay Loop

  • Death is now permanent outside of protected maps.

    • Protected maps: Mushtown, Nilgarf, Port Fidelio, Tree of Life, Warrior Stronghold, Colosseum, Shroompocalypse, Spider Queen Lair
  • Upon death, a gravestone is placed in the location you died in. The gravestone will be styled and the length it will persist will depend on what level you died at.

    • Lvl 1-9: Small gravestone, 10 minutes
    • Lvl 10-19: Medium gravestone, 1 hour
    • Lvl 20-29: Large gravestone, 5 hours
    • Lvl 30: Legendary gravestone, 24 hours, global message
  • Monster difficulty and progression re-balance

    • Monsters now deal 60% less damage.
    • Monster and quest EXP reward increased by 100%.
    • EXP bonus for fighting mobs higher level than you increased by 50%.
    • Mobs more than 5 levels below you are scared of you and will not aggro onto you unless you attack them first.
    • Mobs more than 5 levels above you deal additional bonus damage.
  • Monster Book progress is now global across all saves and persists after death, meaning new loot drops and EXP bonuses unlocked by collecting idols persist across future runs.

  • Storage remains unaffected by death, and can be permanently upgraded for in-game money

One last thing we want to say…

This is not Rogue Lineage.

We are not enabling Global PVP. While the Badlands will feature gameplay similar to Rogue Lineage, the vast majority of the game will remain PVE. People making this comparison are acting like RL invented perma death, and are willfully ignoring the fact that the game will be structured nothing like RL is. If you enjoyed RL, you’ll probably like this update, but Vesteria and RL will remain drastically different games.

Edit: cool idea we came up with after this post went up:

Having read all of the above, we’d like to ask for your opinion on these changes in the poll below. Note that we are pretty passionate about this update, and may go ahead even if the majority doesn’t Strongly Agree. That being said, your opinion is important and we want to hear it in the poll and in the comments below.

  • Strongly disagree, may quit.
  • Leaning Disagree, will give it a chance.
  • Neutral, literally don’t care.
  • Leaning Agree, it could work.
  • Strongly Agree, we need this.

0 voters

In Conclusion, if we could have gone back and started everything over again, this is how we would have made Vesteria in the first place. Unfortunately, the laws of time don’t work that way so this is the best bet we have now to create a game we can truely be passionate about. Regardless of your views of this update, we hope that you can respect the game and the progress we’ve made so far enough to help maintain civilized discussion and constructive criticism on this subject. We can’t wait to share more with you.

-The Vesteria Team


I personally think this is a step in the right direction and I’m looking forward to this.


I agree, Vesteria needs some SPICE in it for once and I think this can go well if its executed correctly.


I have already read all the possible changes to the game if Permadeath does get added to the game.

I can confidently say that my mind has been changed to the point that if this concept does get implemented, I will still play, if not, I will still play. I believe this will bring a whole new experience to MMORPGs.


You guys are the devs. If you think this change will help out vesteria, then I’m all for it. Good luck.


This could work, but only after that non-combat professions have been added and balanced.


YES, finally something to bite into for Vesteria.


This post is great. It’s short and clearly explains the new changes and what they mean and why they are being implemented.

I am glad to see how this goes implemented into the main game.


Honestly, I kinda enjoyed the whole casual-ness of the game, but these changes are necessary and I’m willing to still play.


There should be a graveyard which displays all your dead character’s info. Like a gallery you can look back on for nostalgia.

Edit: finally the forums aren’t down when i try to post this.


i absolutely love that you’ve cleared this up
these changes won’t necessarily impact the way I play vesteria normally with the maps that are protected
hopefully everyone can understand what you’re trying to implement this time.
proud neutralist of permadeath


Just give it a chance, guys. If it doesn’t work it will just get removed. Just give it a chance.


do we lose chicken pet etc?

Let me guess, RotMG?

To start, I think the main thing is that permadeath needs to be optional. With the game being planned big as it is, it should be optional since if a casual player comes on not knowing a lot and dies. they reset which will turn away them from playing the game which isn’t good. This will separate the people who want to play vesteria casually and people who want to play with risk and reward.

If permadeath gets implemented it might work but maybe add some customizable unlocks while playing, this will encourage players to take risks to earn a customizable to flex on other people while some could be hard to earn but cool to see or easy to get and looks cool. These could be for killing a number of enemies or players while also there is customizables for completing quests that you don’t receive in the normal game. These customizables could be transfered to the main game into the bank if you have storage or the same npc who gives you the alpha gift. Of course, these customizables could give stats in the permadeath game if they were super rare and in the main game, the customizables would give likely no stats.


do we lose chicken pet etc? (prob will not lol but ok)
cant edit cause forums are being real laggy rn

i think one of my main problems with an update like this is how late it was added
people have already spent so much time amassing gold bordered boss slaying machines of weapons and if i were them i would never even use them out of fear of it being lost
i would be so much more on board if this happened during alpha

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Your opinion is important but it also isn’t

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i don’t like the idea of permadeath. the reason i do is because it will get boring. and all the higher and richer people might quit the game cause of how much they will loose. its hard to get a ton of gold in the game,and this will make it almost unplayable to more casual players. maybe stick to loosing some xp or items and that could work. i don’t wanna loose all my hard work that i had worked on. plus, would you like a game thats the same thing over and over and over?

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